(יח) כִּֽי־יִהְיֶ֣ה לְאִ֗ישׁ בֵּ֚ן סוֹרֵ֣ר וּמוֹרֶ֔ה אֵינֶ֣נּוּ שֹׁמֵ֔עַ בְּק֥וֹל אָבִ֖יו וּבְק֣וֹל אִמּ֑וֹ וְיסְּר֣וּ אֹת֔וֹ וְלֹ֥א יִשְׁמַ֖ע אֲלֵיהֶֽם׃
(יט) וְתָ֥פְשׂוּ ב֖וֹ אָבִ֣יו וְאִמּ֑וֹ וְהוֹצִ֧יאוּ אֹת֛וֹ אֶל־זִקְנֵ֥י עִיר֖וֹ וְאֶל־שַׁ֥עַר מְקֹמֽוֹ׃
(כ) וְאָמְר֞וּ אֶל־זִקְנֵ֣י עִיר֗וֹ בְּנֵ֤נוּ זֶה֙ סוֹרֵ֣ר וּמֹרֶ֔ה אֵינֶ֥נּוּ שֹׁמֵ֖עַ בְּקֹלֵ֑נוּ זוֹלֵ֖ל וְסֹבֵֽא׃
(כא) וּ֠רְגָמֻהוּ כָּל־אַנְשֵׁ֨י עִיר֤וֹ בָֽאֲבָנִים֙ וָמֵ֔ת וּבִֽעַרְתָּ֥ הָרָ֖ע מִקִּרְבֶּ֑ךָ וְכָל־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל יִשְׁמְע֥וּ וְיִרָֽאוּ׃ (ס)
(18) If a man has a wayward and defiant son, who does not heed his father or mother and does not obey them even after they discipline him,
(19) his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the public place of his community. (20) They shall say to the elders of his town, “This son of ours is disloyal and defiant; he does not heed us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.”
(21) Thereupon the men of his town shall stone him to death. Thus you will sweep out evil from your midst: all Israel will hear and be afraid.
For what crime is the ben sorer u'moreh being killed?
What is the purpose of the death penalty in society according to this passage?
Do you think this is a fitting punishment for the son's behavior?
If not, what punishment do you think would be fitting?
1 "בֵּן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה", מֵאֵימָתַי נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה,
2 מִשֶּׁיָּבִיא שְׁתֵּי שְׂעָרוֹת
3 וְעַד שֶׁיַּקִּיף זָקָן,
4 (הַתַּחְתּוֹן וְלֹא הָעֶלְיוֹן—
5 אֶלָּא שֶׁדִּבְּרוּ חֲכָמִים בְּלָשׁוֹן נְקִיָּה)
6 שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (דברים כא), כִּי יִהְיֶה לְאִישׁ בֵּן, 7 "בֵּן" וְלֹא בַת,
8 "בֵּן" וְלֹא אִישׁ.
הַקָּטָן פָּטוּר, שֶׁלֹּא בָא לִכְלָל מִצְוֹת:
1 Ben sorer umoreh (a rebellious son): From when does one become "a rebellious son?"
2 From the time he brings two hairs,
3 until he is "circled" by a beard.
4 (The lower and not the upper—
5 i.e., the rabbis spoke euphemistically)
6 As it is written (Deuteronomy 21:18): "If there be to a man a son…" —
7 "a son," and not a daughter;
8 "a son," and not a man.
9 A minor is exempt, not having entered the realm of mitzvoth.
סַנְהֶדְרִין הַהוֹרֶגֶת אֶחָד בְּשָׁבוּעַ נִקְרֵאת חָבְלָנִית.
רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן עֲזַרְיָה אוֹמֵר, אֶחָד לְשִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה.
רַבִּי טַרְפוֹן וְרַבִּי עֲקִיבָא אוֹמְרִים, אִלּוּ הָיִינוּ בַסַּנְהֶדְרִין לֹא נֶהֱרַג אָדָם מֵעוֹלָם.
רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר, אַף הֵן מַרְבִּין שׁוֹפְכֵי דָמִים בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל:
A Sanhedrin that would execute somebody once in seven years would be considered destructive.
Rabbi Elazar Ben Azariah says: "Once in seventy years."
Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiva said: "If we were on the Sanhedrin , nobody would have ever been executed."
Rabban Shim'on Ben Gamliel said: "They too would have increased violence in Israel."
Biblical vs. Rabbinic Attitudes Towards Capital Punishment
1. Create a chart based on this mishnah of the four opinions expressed.
2. On a continuum of "there should be no capital punishment" to "we need the death penalty", where would you place each of these four positions expressed in the Mishnah?
3. Speak in the voices of the rabbis quoted above and justify what you mean and why you should be placed in a particular place on the continuum. What ambiguities can we identify about the reasoning behind each authority's position?
4. How do the attitudes about capital punishment expressed in this mishnah differ from the attitudes expressed in the Bible?
5. What concerns are R. Tarfon and R. Akiba raising ? What are they worried about?
6. On the other hand, what is R. Shmon ben Gamliel concerned about? What is the purpose of the death penalty, according to R. Shimon ben Gamliel?
1. [שאלה]
קטן מנלן דפטור?
2. [תשובה – עם שאלה רטורית]
– מנלן? – כדקתני טעמא: שלא בא לכלל מצות!
3. [עוד תשובה – עם שאלה רטורית]
ותו: היכא אשכחן דענש הכתוב, דהכא ליבעי קרא למיפטריה?
4. [בירור השאלה]
– אנן הכי קאמרינן: אטו בן סורר ומורה על חטאו נהרג? על שם סופו נהרג,
וכיון דעל שם סופו נהרג – אפילו קטן נמי?
5. [עוד סיבה לנכונות השאלה]
ועוד: בן ולא איש – קטן משמע.
6. [תשובה]
אמר רב יהודה אמר רב: דאמר קרא "וכי יהיה לאיש בן" – בן הסמוך לגבורתו של איש.
GEMARA: From where do we derive that a minor is exempt from the punishment imposed upon a stubborn and rebellious son?
2) From where do we derive this halakha?!? The reason is as is taught in the mishna: Because he has not yet reached the age of inclusion in mitzvot!!
3. And furthermore, where do we find that the verse punishes a minor, so that a special verse should be required here in order to exempt him?
4. This is what we are saying: Is this to say that a stubborn and rebellious son is killed for a sin that he already committed? He is killed for what he will become in the end.
And since he is executed for what he will become in the end, one might have thought that even a minor as well can be convicted and executed.
5. And furthermore, the exclusion: “'A son,'” but not a man," means a minor might be included in the law of ben sorer u'moreh.
6. Rav Yehuda says that Rav says: A minor is exempt from the punishment imposed upon a stubborn and rebellious son, as the verse states: “If a man has a son” (Deuteronomy 21:18), which indicates that the halakha applies to a son who is close to the stage of having the strength of a man, i.e., close to full maturity, but not to a younger boy.
Based on this chapter of Mishnah, write a list of rules and regulations about the Ben Sorer u'Moreh. Under what conditions is he executed?
Based on these laws, how often do you think this Torah law could be enforced?
What issue are the last three mishnayot dealing with?
What do they add to our understanding of "he is executed on account of his end?"
Mishnah Sanhedrin Chapter 8
1
בֵּן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, מֵאֵימָתַי נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, מִשֶּׁיָּבִיא שְׁתֵּי שְׂעָרוֹת וְעַד שֶׁיַּקִּיף זָקָן, הַתַּחְתּוֹן וְלֹא הָעֶלְיוֹן, אֶלָּא שֶׁדִּבְּרוּ חֲכָמִים בְּלָשׁוֹן נְקִיָּה, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (דברים כא), כִּי יִהְיֶה לְאִישׁ בֵּן, בֵּן וְלֹא בַת, בֵּן וְלֹא אִישׁ. הַקָּטָן פָּטוּר, שֶׁלֹּא בָא לִכְלָל מִצְוֹת:
A wayward and rebellious son- at what time can he become a wayward and rebellious son? From when he grows two hairs until the beard grows full. [This refers to] the lower beard, not the upper beard, [but this expression is used] since the Sages spoke in clean language. As it says, (Deuteronomy 21:18) "If a man have a son": "a son," and not a daughter; "a son," and not a man. A minor is exempt, for he has not entered the category of [those obligated in] the commandments.
2
מֵאֵימָתַי חַיָּב, מִשֶּׁיֹּאכַל טַרְטֵימַר בָּשָׂר וְיִשְׁתֶּה חֲצִי לֹג יַיִן הָאִיטַלְקִי. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר, מָנֶה בָּשָׂר וְלֹג יָיִן. אָכַל בַּחֲבוּרַת מִצְוָה, אָכַל בְּעִבּוּר הַחֹדֶשׁ, אָכַל מַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי בִּירוּשָׁלַיִם, אָכַל נְבֵלוֹת וּטְרֵפוֹת, שְׁקָצִים וּרְמָשִׂים, אָכַל טֶבֶל וּמַעֲשֵׂר רִאשׁוֹן שֶׁלֹּא נִטְּלָה תְרוּמָתוֹ וּמַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי וְהֶקְדֵּשׁ שֶׁלֹּא נִפְדּוּ, אָכַל דָּבָר שֶׁהוּא מִצְוָה וְדָבָר שֶׁהוּא עֲבֵרָה, אָכַל כָּל מַאֲכָל וְלֹא אָכַל בָּשָׂר, שָׁתָה כָל מַשְׁקֶה וְלֹא שָׁתָה יַיִן, אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, עַד שֶׁיֹּאכַל בָּשָׂר וְיִשְׁתֶּה יַיִן, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (דברים כא) זוֹלֵל וְסֹבֵא. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין רְאָיָה לַדָּבָר, זֵכֶר לַדָּבָר, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (משלי כג) אַל תְּהִי בְסֹבְאֵי יָיִן בְּזֹלְלֵי בָשָׂר לָמוֹ:
From when is he liable [to be stoned]? When he eats a tarteimar of meat and drinks half a log [ measure of liquid] of Italian wine. Rabbi Yosi says, a maneh[equal to one hundred zuz] of meat and a log of wine. [If] he ate [it] in a mitzvah gathering; [if] he ate [it] in [celebration of] the intercalation of the month; [if] he ate [it] as ma'aser sheni [the second tithe, which must be eaten in Jerusalem] in Jerusalem; [if] he ate nevelot [an animal not properly slaughtered] or terefot [a mortally wounded animal] or creepy crawlies; [if he ate] tevel [untithed produce] or ma'aser rishon [the first tithe] from which terumah [the portion given to the priest] has not been taken; or ma'aser sheni or hekdesh that has not been redeemed; [if] he ate something [in fulfillment of] a commandment or something [in violation of] a transgression; [or if] he ate all foods but did not eat meat; [or] drank all drinks but did not drink wine, he does not become a wayward and rebellious son, until he eats meat and drinks wine. As it says, (Deuteronomy 21:20) "He is a glutton and a drunkard." And even though there is no proof to the matter [from a Scriptural verse], there is a reference to the matter, as it says, (Proverbs 23:20) "Be not among winebibbers, among gluttonous eaters of flesh."
3
גָּנַב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אָבִיו, מִשֶּׁל אֲחֵרִים וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אֲחֵרִים, מִשֶּׁל אֲחֵרִים וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אָבִיו, אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, עַד שֶׁיִּגְנֹב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וְיֹאכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אֲחֵרִים. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר, עַד שֶׁיִּגְנֹב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וּמִשֶּׁל אִמּוֹ:
If he stole from his father and ate in his father's domain; [if he stole] from others and ate in others' domain; [if he stole] from others and ate in his father's domain, he does not become a wayward and rebellious son, until he steals from his father and eats in others' domain. Rabbi Yosi bar Yehudah says, until he steals from his father and from his mother.
4
הָיָה אָבִיו רוֹצֶה וְאִמּוֹ אֵינָהּ רוֹצָה, אָבִיו אֵינוֹ רוֹצֶה וְאִמּוֹ רוֹצָה, אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, עַד שֶׁיְּהוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם רוֹצִים. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר, אִם לֹא הָיְתָה אִמּוֹ רְאוּיָה לְאָבִיו, אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה. הָיָה אֶחָד מֵהֶם גִּדֵּם אוֹ חִגֵּר אוֹ אִלֵּם אוֹ סוּמָא אוֹ חֵרֵשׁ, אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (דברים כא) וְתָפְשׂוּ בוֹ אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ, וְלֹא גִדְּמִין. וְהוֹצִיאוּ אֹתוֹ, וְלֹא חִגְּרִין. וְאָמְרוּ, וְלֹא אִלְּמִין. בְּנֵנוּ זֶה, וְלֹא סוּמִין. אֵינֶנּוּ שֹׁמֵעַ בְּקֹלֵנוּ, וְלֹא חֵרְשִׁין. מַתְרִין בּוֹ בִּפְנֵי שְׁלֹשָׁה וּמַלְקִין אוֹתוֹ. חָזַר וְקִלְקֵל, נִדּוֹן בְּעֶשְׂרִים וּשְׁלֹשָׁה. וְאֵינוֹ נִסְקָל עַד שֶׁיְּהוּ שָׁם שְׁלֹשָׁה הָרִאשׁוֹנִים, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (שם) בְּנֵנוּ זֶה, זֶהוּ שֶׁלָּקָה בִּפְנֵיכֶם. בָּרַח עַד שֶׁלֹּא נִגְמַר דִּינוֹ וְאַחַר כָּךְ הִקִּיף זָקָן הַתַּחְתּוֹן, פָּטוּר. וְאִם מִשֶּׁנִּגְמַר דִּינוֹ בָּרַח וְאַחַר כָּךְ הִקִּיף זָקָן הַתַּחְתּוֹן, חַיָּב:
If his father wants [to bring the son to court] and his mother does not want, [or if] his father does not want and his mother does want, he does not become a wayward and rebellious son, until they both want. Rabbi Yehudah says, if the mother were not appropriate for the father, he does not become a wayward and rebellious son. If one of [the parents] had a hand cut off, or was lame, mute, blind, or deaf-mute, he does not become a wayward and rebellious son. As it says, (Deuteronomy 21:19) "Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him," and not those whose hands have been cut off. "And bring him out," and not a lame person. (Deuteronomy 21:20) "And they shall say," and not mute people. "This our son," and not blind people. "He does not listen to our voice," and not deaf-mute people. They warn him in front of three and lash him. If he repeats his misdeeds, he is judged by a court of twenty-three. And he is not stoned until the original three [judges] are present, as it says (Deuteronomy 21:20), "This our son," he who was lashed before you. If he flees before the verdict has been reached and then his lower beard grows full, he is exempt. But if once the verdict was reached he fled, and then his lower beard grew full, he is [still] liable.
5
בֵּן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה נִדּוֹן עַל שֵׁם סוֹפוֹ, יָמוּת זַכַּאי וְאַל יָמוּת חַיָּב, שֶׁמִּיתָתָן שֶׁל רְשָׁעִים הֲנָאָה לָהֶן וַהֲנָאָה לָעוֹלָם, וְלַצַּדִּיקִים, רַע לָהֶן וְרַע לָעוֹלָם. יַיִן וְשֵׁנָה לָרְשָׁעִים, הֲנָאָה לָהֶן וַהֲנָאָה לָעוֹלָם, וְלַצַּדִּיקִים, רַע לָהֶן וְרַע לָעוֹלָם. פִּזּוּר לָרְשָׁעִים, הֲנָאָה לָהֶן וַהֲנָאָה לָעוֹלָם, וְלַצַּדִּיקִים, רַע לָהֶן וְרַע לָעוֹלָם. כִּנּוּס לָרְשָׁעִים, רַע לָהֶן וְרַע לָעוֹלָם, וְלַצַּדִּיקִים, הֲנָאָה לָהֶן וַהֲנָאָה לָעוֹלָם. שֶׁקֶט לָרְשָׁעִים, רַע לָהֶן וְרַע לָעוֹלָם, וְלַצַּדִּיקִים, הֲנָאָה לָהֶן וַהֲנָאָה לָעוֹלָם:
The wayward and rebellious son is judged on the basis of his end. He should die innocent and not liable, because the death of the wicked is beneficial to them and beneficial to the world; but for the righteous, it is bad for them and bad for the world. Wine and sleep: for the wicked they are a benefit to them and a benefit for the world; but for the righteous, they are bad for them and bad for the world. Being scattered: for the wicked it is a benefit to them and to the world; but for the righteous, it is bad for them and bad for the world. Being gathered: for the wicked it is bad for them and bad for the world; but for the righteous, it is beneficial to them and beneficial to the world. Quiet: for the wicked it is bad for them and bad for the world; but for the righteous, it is beneficial for them and beneficial to the world.
6
הַבָּא בַמַּחְתֶּרֶת נִדּוֹן עַל שֵׁם סוֹפוֹ. הָיָה בָא בַמַּחְתֶּרֶת וְשָׁבַר אֶת הֶחָבִית, אִם יֶשׁ לוֹ דָמִים, חַיָּב. אִם אֵין לוֹ דָמִים, פָּטוּר:
[A thief] who comes through a tunnel [into one's house] is judged on the basis of his end. If he came through a tunnel and broke a jug: if he has blood-guilt, he is liable; if he does not have blood-guilt, he is exempt.
7
וְאֵלּוּ הֵן שֶׁמַּצִּילִין אוֹתָן בְּנַפְשָׁן, הָרוֹדֵף אַחַר חֲבֵרוֹ לְהָרְגוֹ, אַחַר הַזְּכוּר וְאַחַר הַנַּעֲרָה הַמְאֹרָסָה. אֲבָל הָרוֹדֵף אַחַר בְּהֵמָה, וְהַמְחַלֵּל אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, וְהָעוֹבֵד עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה, אֵין מַצִּילִין אוֹתָן בְּנַפְשָׁן:
These may be saved [from transgression] with their lives [i.e. by killing them]: one who pursues his fellow to kill him, and [one who pursues] a male or a betrothed maiden [to rape them]. But one who pursues an animal [to commit bestiality], and one who [intends] to desecrate the Sabbath, and one who [intends] to worship idols, one may not save them with their lives.
English