Jerusalem Talmud Niddah 1:2

משנה: כֵּיצַד דַּייָהּ שָׁעָתָהּ. הָֽיְתָה יוֹשֶׁבֶת בַּמִּיטָּה וַעֲסוּקָה בְּטַהֳרוֹת פֵּירְשָׁה וְרָאָת דָּם הִיא טְמֵיאָה וְכוּלָּן טְהוֹרוֹת. אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאָֽמְרוּ טְמֵיאָה מֵעֵת לְעֵת אֵינָה מוֹנָה אֶלָּא מִשָּׁעָה שֶׁרָאָת. רִבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר אַרְבַּע נָשִׁים דַּייָן שָׁעָתָן בְּתוּלָה וּמְעוּבֶּרֶת וּמֵינִיקָה וּזְקֵינָה אָמַר רִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אֲנִי לֹא שָׁמַעְתִּי אֶלָּה בְתוּלָה אֲבָל הֲלָכָה כְּרִבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר. MISHNAH: How is her timing exact⁶³The woman with a regular period, who may prepare pure food until close to the time of her period.? If she was sitting on a bed occupied with pure food, if she left [the bed] and saw blood, she is impure but all the food is pure. Even though they said, she is retroactively impure for 24 hours⁶⁴The woman without an established period., she counts only from the moment she saw. Rebbi Eliezer says, the timings of four kinds of women are exact: a virgin⁶⁵As explained in the next Mishnah, this is a young girl who never had a period, independent of any sexual activities she might have had., and a pregnant woman, and a nursing one, and a post-menopausal. Rebbi Joshua said, I heard only about the virgin, but practice follows Rebbi Eliezer.

הלכה: אָמַר רִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אֲנִי לֹא שָׁמַעְתִּי אֶלָּה בְתוּלָה. אֲבָל הֲלָכָה כְּרִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר. אֵין אוֹמְרִין מִי שֶׁלֹּא רָאָה אֶת הַלְּבָנָה יָבוֹא וְיָעִיד. אֶלָּא אוֹמְרִין. מִי שֶׁרָאָה אֶת הַלְּבָנָה יָבוֹא וְיָעִיד. אַתָּה לֹא שָׁמַעתָּ אֲנִי שָׁמַעְתִּי. כָּל־יָמִים שֶׁהָָיָה רִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר קַייָם הָֽיְתָה הֲלָכָה כְּרִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ. מִשֶּׁמֵּת רִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר הִנְהִיג רִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ הֲלָכָה כְּרִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר. מַה נָן קַייָמִין. אִם בְּשֶׁשָּׁמַע רִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר מִפִּי אֶחָד וְרִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ מִפִּי שְׁנַיִם בֵּין בַּחַיִים בֵּין לְאַחַר מִיתָה תְּהֵא הֲלָכָה כְּרִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ. וְאִם בְּשֶׁשָּׁמַע רִבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ מִפִּי אֶחָד וְרִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר מִפִּי שְׁנַיִם בֵּין בַּחַיִים בֵּין לְאַחַר מִיתָה תְּהֵא הֲלָכָה כְּרִבִּי לִיעֶזֶר. כְּהָדָא דְתַנֵּי. אֶחָד אוֹמֵר. שָׁמַעְתִּי מִפִּי שְׁנַיִם. וּשְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִין. שָׁמַעְנוּ מִפִּי אֶחָד. יִיפֶּה כֹחַ הָאֶחָד שֶׁשָּׁמַע מִפִּי שְׁנַיִם מִכֹּחַ הַשְּׁנַיִם שֶׁשָּֽׁמְעוּ מִפִּי אֶחָד. אֶלָּא כֵן אֲנָן קַייָמִין. בְּשָׁוִין. זֶה שָׁמַע מִפִּי אֶחָד וְזֶה שָׁמַע מִפִּי אֶחָד. זֶה שָׁמַע מִפִּי שְׁנַיִם וְזֶה שָׁמַע מִפִּי שְׁנַיִם. בְּחַייָו לֹא רָאָה דַעְתּוֹ. לְאַחַר מִיתָתוֹ רָאָה דַעְתּוֹ. מַה חֲמִית מֵימַר. בְּשֶׁרָאָה דַעְתּוֹ. כְּהָדָא דְתַנֵּי. אַרְבַּע נָשִׁים שֶׁאָֽמְרוּ חֲכָמִים. דַּייָן שָׁעָתָן. כִּתְמָן טָמֵא לְמַפְרֵעַ חוּץ מִתִּינוֹקֶת שֶׁלֹּא הִגִּיעַ זְמַנָּהּ לִרְאוֹת מִפְּנֵי שֶׁאֵין לָהּ כְּתָמִין. דִּבְרֵי רִבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים. אַרְבַּע נָשִׁים שֶׁאָֽמְרוּ חֲכָמִים. דַּייָן שָׁעָתָן. כִּתְמָן טָמֵא לְמַפְרֵעַ. אֲבָל תִּינוֹקֶת שֶׁהִגִּיעַ זְמַנָּהּ לִרְאוֹת כִּתְמָהּ כִּרְאִייָתָהּ. מַה רְאִייָתָהּ דַּייָה שָׁעָתָהּ אָף כִּתְמָהּ דַּייָהּ שָׁעָתָהּ. אָמַר רִבִּי יַנַּאי. מִפְּנֵי שֶׁשִּׂירְפָּהּ מָצוּי. וּמַה אִם זֶה שֶׁסִּירְפָּהּ מָצוּי אַתְּ אָמַר. דַּייָה שָׁעָתָהּ. אֵילּוּ שֶׁאֵין שִׂירְפָּן מָצוּי לֹא כָל־שֶׁכֵּן. מִיכָּן שֶׁרָאָה דַעְתּוֹ. HALAKHAH: “Rebbi Joshua said, I heard only about the virgin, but practice follows Rebbi Eliezer.” One does not say, somebody who did not see the new moon should come and testify⁶⁶To testify that he saw the new moon, to proclaim a new month., but one says, if somebody saw the new moon, he should come and testify⁶⁷In the language of the Eduyot 2:2" href="/Mishnah_Eduyot.2.2">Mishnah (Idiut 2:2): “‘We did not see’ is no proof;” neither is ‘we did not hear’.. You did not hear, I heard. All during Rebbi Eliezer’s lifetime, practice followed Rebbi Joshua⁶⁸Since R. Eliezer did not accept majority votes in religious practice, he was put in the ban and R. Joshua was the undisputed authority. After R. Eliezer’s death, practice could follow his opinion without creating the danger of a schism.. After Rebbi Eliezer’s death, Rebbi Joshua introduced practice following Rebbi Eliezer. Where do we hold? If Rebbi Eliezer heard from one [authority] but Rebbi Joshua from two, practice should follow Rebbi Joshua whether [Rebbi Eliezer] was alive or dead. But if Rebbi Joshua heard from one [authority] but Rebbi Eliezer from two, practice should follow Rebbi Eliezer whether he was alive or dead. As it was stated: One says, I heard from two [authorities] and two say, we heard from one, the power of the one who heard from two is greater than that of two who heard from one⁶⁹The translation follows the Geniza text which reads יָפֶה כֹחַ “the power is greater” rather than the Leiden ms. יִיפֶּה כֹחַ “(an unknown subject) empowered”. The principle is mentioned in Eduyot 5:7" href="/Mishnah_Eduyot.5.7">Mishnah Idiut 5:7.. But we must hold either that either one heard from one or that either one heard from two. During his⁷⁰R. Eliezer. lifetime he⁷¹R. Joshua. was not convinced of his opinion, after he⁷⁰R. Eliezer. died he⁷¹R. Joshua. became convinced of his⁷⁰R. Eliezer. opinion. What did he⁷¹R. Joshua. see to say that he⁷¹R. Joshua. became convinced of his⁷⁰R. Eliezer. opinion? As it was stated: The stains of all four categories of women, about whom the Sages said that their timings are exact, cause retroactive impurity except for a girl who is too young to menstruate, for that one has no stains⁷²The rules of stains do not apply to her. The Babli has a different version, 5a, and defines the onset of menstruation as the earlier of either the growth of two pubic hairs or 12 years of age., the words of Rebbi Meïr. But the Sages say, for all four categories of women about whom the Sages said that their timings are exact, their stains cause retroactive impurity except for a girl about to start to menstruate⁷³The reading of the Leiden ms. seems superior to Geniza ms., “too young to menstruate”., for her stains start with her menstruation. Since if she sees blood her timing is exact, so also for her stain her timing. Rebbi Yannai said, because her sap⁷⁴שְׂרָף is tree sap. It is an appropriate image for body fluids before the discovery of the circulation of blood. There would have been reason to make the impurity of the girl in puberty retroactive. Since R. Joshua agrees that in her case there is no retroactivity, there is no reason to extend retroactivity to the other three cases. is frequent. If the timing of one whose sap is frequent is exact, the others whose sap is not so frequent so much more! By this reason he⁷¹R. Joshua. became convinced of his⁷⁰R. Eliezer. opinion.